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Vitani
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Re: Bad Dragon Banter

Postby Vitani » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:04 pm

Phelvia wrote:
Vitani wrote:
One year, BD shut down the forums as their prank, and everyone was seriously -outraged- So .... no I wouldn't really put it past them entirely.


That was a prank? Are you serious? I remember that and....it didn't seem like one. At all. No idea if you're being sarcastic.


Yes, I'm serious. I'm not talking about the time they shut the forums down.
The site store and the forums were taken down for the day.
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Amaranthe
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Re: Bad Dragon Banter

Postby Amaranthe » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:05 pm

Casma wrote:Pretty sure if it was a prank they would pull Rex, Chance, Fenrir, Bumble etc. And have them only available in fleshy pink.

I don't really get worked up about things, and I for sure get retiring Bruce and a handful of colors. Surprising that they wouldn't do an extinction sale, as others have said.

I was thinking that, too. If it were a prank, why not make changes to the more popular ones? Because it took a while before people started noticing the colors disappearing, and then they retired a model that's not too popular. Why bother with the little stuff? But then, they could be planning to increase the intensity over time, so to speak, but it's already Wednesday. I'm still hung up on the fact that if it is a prank, they either arranged to lie to their employees or instructed their employees to lie to customers to keep up the prank.

:mystery:
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Re: Bad Dragon Banter

Postby Vitani » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:08 pm

Amaranthe wrote:I'm still hung up on the fact that if it is a prank, they either arranged to lie to their employees or instructed their employees to lie to customers to keep up the prank.


THIS is pretty much where my biggest issue is. (If it is a prank that is)

I'm just speculating guys, BTW. I have no idea if it's really a prank or not, I'm just suggesting. I am not happy that BD either has

A.) Lied to their customers for a cheap prank

or

B.) Made major changes without a /single/ announcement to anyone, even their own staff.
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Amaranthe
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Re: Bad Dragon Banter

Postby Amaranthe » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:10 pm

Vitani wrote:
Amaranthe wrote:I'm still hung up on the fact that if it is a prank, they either arranged to lie to their employees or instructed their employees to lie to customers to keep up the prank.


THIS is pretty much where my biggest issue is. (If it is a prank that is)

I'm just speculating guys, BTW. I have no idea if it's really a prank or not, I'm just suggesting. I am not happy that BD either has

A.) Lied to their customers for a cheap prank

or

B.) Made major changes without a /single/ announcement to anyone, even their own staff.

This is 100% where I am, too. I mean, I am mildly upset about the colors, and about the small Hanns. But if they had given a heads up, I would have been like, "okay, cool!" and gone on. But now I'm worried because stuff keeps going missing. :unamused:
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Phelvia
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Re: Bad Dragon Banter

Postby Phelvia » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:20 pm

blushingkitten wrote:
Anyways. I don't really understand why people are getting so angry about this. People can still order whatever they want.
They are a business. We are a small fraction of their customers.

Yeah, it sucks they didn't announce anything. I understand it can be upsetting to miss out on something at a better price. But stuff changes. They have their own agenda and their own plans.


There's too much other amazing stuff for me to focus on. I have a bunch of toys that I find enjoyment from, and which I will continue to. And even if BD ends up doing something crazy and I no longer can support them, I'll appreciate what toys I do have from them and move on. I'd be sad, sure, but it's not the end of the world. There always has been sex toys and there will always be more.



No, people cannot order "whatever they want" for a more expensive price. As others have said, some colors/models just won't be done now. Take grimm spindle/any of Janine colors that had split lips. Or recently, Bruce. People checked, BD WON'T give them what "they want". Not sure if I read it right but they also took away colors like feathered serpent/treasure hoard. (Or do you just have to ticket for that now?)

Seems like a poor marketing strategy when BD seems to be going back on everything people knew them for. Or what they advertise they "will" or "can" do. Also if this is the case and they are changing, BD should say so and not send out things like they did on Febuary 19th (literally a day after they got rid of janine's colors)
When it comes to the wide range of available colors we offer our customers, there are certain ones that we create that can only be ordered by request. We are always happy to try them out for you, all you have to do is ask and we will make the best effort we can to make you something great!
^ This right here is false advertising. Of course people are going to be angry when BD just slaps you in the face by sending out this and when you ask, you get a "no we can't do this".

Pretty much the last bit. Guess just enjoy what one DID buy and was happy about their purchase.
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Re: Bad Dragon Banter

Postby Lipton » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:25 pm

blushingkitten wrote:This is probably not going to be a good idea for me to speak up or post this, but it's been really bothering me... So to offer a different opinion, to let it be known that not everybody is that upset over this... I'm going to say it anyways. And I don't mean to be offensive or marginalize people's feelings of stress or unhappy, nor is this aimed at anyone in specific, just thinking out loud...

Also putting it under a spoiler due to its length.
► Show Spoiler


Very well written... They are a company and we are the customers they can do whatever they want and don't have to inform us about it at all. Besides the Forum is only a small group of the buyers. I don't get it why some people claim that BD owns them an explanation :mystery:

Also these are dildos so I would assume functionality > color ?
I don't care if I shove me a rainbow or a pink *insert any BD dildo here* up my butt ^.^
Last edited by Lipton on Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bad Dragon Banter

Postby Phelvia » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:28 pm

Vitani wrote:
Phelvia wrote:
Vitani wrote:
One year, BD shut down the forums as their prank, and everyone was seriously -outraged- So .... no I wouldn't really put it past them entirely.


That was a prank? Are you serious? I remember that and....it didn't seem like one. At all. No idea if you're being sarcastic.


Yes, I'm serious. I'm not talking about the time they shut the forums down.
The site store and the forums were taken down for the day.


That's....is in really poor taste. Like damn.
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Re: Bad Dragon Banter

Postby AltheaThune » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:32 pm

Per Elise, this is not an April Fools gag.

CS sometimes knows things they're not permitted to share with customers. BD is notoriously secretive, and often it makes no sense, but it's the decision of BD's management, and there's nothing CS can do about it. I'm sure it's uncomfortable for them having to tell customers, "I'm unable to provide more information on that at this time," or words to that effect, but it comes with the territory, unfortunately. I don't know what's worse, being kept in the dark, or having the information and being prohibited from sharing it.

I think we'll still be able to order discontinued colorations like Feathered Serpent, if we ticket for it and don't mind paying more. But that assumes you even know the coloration existed. Customers who are new to BD will just see the options that are currently available. I'm guessing BD's goal is to have fewer customers ordering difficult/complicated designs, so they can process more orders more quickly without having to hire more cocksmiths. It sucks, but that's progress for ya.
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Re: Bad Dragon Banter

Postby Vitani » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:37 pm

Damn....then BD really has reached a new all time low in my book. wow.

Guess I better get that last custom I wanted before they take away custom split colors too.
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Re: Bad Dragon Banter

Postby Amaranthe » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:41 pm

I'm wondering if you can even order custom fades on Pretzal anymore? Feathered Serpent was a fade, which is now gone. But so is the option to put in custom colors for a fade on the customization page for Pretzal (and Nox :angry: )

I just want to know what the score is. I'm so tired of things coming in bits and pieces like this, which, BIG FUCKING CLUE to the people who don't get it, sucks ass for those of us with plans for customs. An announcement of what the hell is going to be retired would NOT kill them and is a better business practice than how they've decided to handle it. It's really not that hard to understand.
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Re: Bad Dragon Banter

Postby thesharkwhisperer » Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:00 pm

Lipton wrote:
blushingkitten wrote:This is probably not going to be a good idea for me to speak up or post this, but it's been really bothering me... So to offer a different opinion, to let it be known that not everybody is that upset over this... I'm going to say it anyways. And I don't mean to be offensive or marginalize people's feelings of stress or unhappy, nor is this aimed at anyone in specific, just thinking out loud...

Also putting it under a spoiler due to its length.
► Show Spoiler


Very well written... They are a company and we are the customers they can do whatever they want and don't have to inform us about it at all. Besides the Forum is only a small group of the buyers. I don't get it why some people claim that BD owns them an explanation :mystery:

Also these are dildos so I would assume functionality > color ?
I don't care if I shove me a rainbow or a pink *insert any BD dildo here* up my butt ^.^

For a lot of people, the colors and overall aesthetic are part of the fantasy.

I have seen people say they do this so they have less backlog on custom orders. But I think the metric tons of adoptions they drop all the time would be more likely to take time than the level of customization they offered :mystery:
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Lipton
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Re: Bad Dragon Banter

Postby Lipton » Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:02 pm

thesharkwhisperer wrote:For a lot of people, the colors and overall aesthetic are part of the fantasy.

I have seen people say they do this so they have less backlog on custom orders. But I think the metric tons of adoptions they drop all the time would be more likely to take time than the level of customization they offered :mystery:


It seems quite random yeah, time will show what they plan I guess :mystery:
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Re: Bad Dragon Banter

Postby 3TK » Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:25 pm

Fades seem to be gone as an option from:
► Show Spoiler

Now, I'm not sure if some of them were a choice on some models to begin with (ie: I think they pulled it from Echo after the first week and stated through CS he just kept flopping too much with fades?).

Nox does still have his fades, though. Both regular Fade and Custom Split Fade. :mystery:

Now, not ALL of the ones with Fades have the ability to have Custom Split Fades. It didn't occur to me to make a note of it until, like...the end, so if you folks want to check out your favorite models in the meantime to see if they do or do not, feel free. An example of a model having a Fade but no Split Fade option off the top of my head is Stan (for some reason).

I'll come back and make another list for that...later-ish. Unless someone beats me to the punch.

I need to wake up before I process more of this. I swear, I've been through these dick pages so many times in the past couple of days, I dreamt of them last night. :psyduck:

► Show Spoiler


Edit:
I forgot to make a mention of this, like, back when I made the first list of missing colors, but the Sizes and Firmnesses I've been selecting primarily for testing have been Medium/Medium. I've swapped around a bit to double-check on "smaller" Mediums (like Fenrir), but for the most part that's what I've done.
I figured it was just the smartest "business model"; if they were truly going to remove something, they're certainly going to make their most popular size and firmness incompatible with it.
Like...I highly, highly doubt if I put everything as XL it was going to just open me up to a plethora of the old options again like some odd Bad-Dragon-Varka-esque Konami code. :psyduck:
Last edited by 3TK on Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bad Dragon Banter

Postby HungryStray » Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:29 pm

I've popped in here to provide a little bit of info on what I know thus far. I ticketed and asked what I considered were important questions and every one of them was answered in a straightforward way as much as they were able to tell me.

Nocturne - Night Terror has been pulled as a color, but it is still available as a custom split fade on all compatible models. Fades have been pulled from Nocturne as well but can be requested and come with a disclaimer.

Brazen Mail, Feathered Serpent, and Golden Hoard - These can all still be ordered on compatible models at the cost of a custom fade. Scorn is PROBABLY not compatible with any kind of fade due to his shape. It may still able to be done but it needs to be cleared with the artisans beforehand.

I was told that changes were happening but CS swore hands down that there were reasons for it (reasons they are obviously unable to disclose but reasons all the same). By the sounds (don't quote me though) there might be some new colors headed our way likely involving the models that got the cut. All of them so far are still existing. One of the things that they wanted to stress heavily was that CS is there to help, and I honestly believe that they mean that. While I am incredibly unhappy with the changes so far, I'm confident at this point that CS will do everything in their power to help us with what we want. In retrospect, a lot of the changes don't really effect me personally, as all of my toys that don't come out of adoptions tend to be complicated customs, and it doesn't seem like actual customization is going to be all that different, and from my side of things, paying another few dollars for the custom isn't that big of a deal, a let down perhaps, but not a deal breaker.

While we are the audience that notices most of these changes, a lot of us are the least affected by it because we know to ticket about things that we want in our toys, whereas the general public doesn't have this information. I will be working on my Bad Dragon gallery and trying to keep it posted as close to the top of the general forum as possible. Let it be a beacon knowing that all the colors featured on it are still alive, and can be purchased by us. I'm not trying to downplay anyone's disappointment, believe me, I'm with a lot of you and I understand your frustration as a customer, but know that our options are still very open, by way of CS, and I urge you to use them as frequently as possible, based on my own experiences with them.
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Re: Bad Dragon Banter

Postby reine » Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:30 pm

Neither "Colour doesn't matter" nor "Companies can do whatever they want" change the fact that colour/customization is advertised as BD's main draw, and it doesn't make BD's decision to suddenly remove toys/colours/etc. without informing the customers in any way, shape, or form any less tasteless. We just want a little closure or forewarning-- BD has removed stuff in past, but never on this scale, especially without letting their customers know. :eyeroll:

On that note, models are also starting to lose their Custom Fade/Custom Split Fade options, which makes me wonder if BD's axing fades specifically-- all toys appear to still have their Custom Marble (and Custom Split Marble, if splits are applicable) options. Are they too time-consuming with the backlog, or...?

idk if anyone's done this yet, but here's a list of models missing their Custom Fade and/or Custom Split Fade options:
► Show Spoiler
:psyduck:
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Re: Bad Dragon Banter

Postby cluster » Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:10 pm

I see lots of people postulating that various toys aren't good sellers or that the forum members are only a tiny minority of the overall BD buyership, and I wonder where the certainty that these things are true comes from.

I glean that people say that various toys aren't good sellers if there aren't a lot of them in the adoptions, but I wonder if this is true across the board. Snow Leopard, for example. There's only one size of it, so once someone has one, they have it. They aren't going to be moving through sizes or getting a couple of different sizes for different kinds of play. They could get different firmnesses, but with a one size, that's 3 potential purchases per toy (assuming 1 of each per person) as opposed to 12 potential purchases assuming a S-XL release in the 3 main firmnesses. Assuming an average number of flops across time, there's an opportunity for 3 flops to show up as rogues (or actual flops) in adoptions for a one size and 12 for a full release. If you constrain buying across all options and presume they're equal, toys with fewer options will always look less popular. (This doesn't speak to toys like Vergil, obviously.)

As for forum members and their relative weight - I would agree that it seems likely that there are more people who buy from BD who are not forum members than there are people who are forum members, but if you look at total percentage of toys sold which could be attributed to forum members, I'd imagine that distribution would look very different. Not everyone on the forum is a "superbuyer", but a lot of people on the forums have quite a few toys. Multiple dozens, if not more. There's no real way to know the size of the collections of people who aren't forum users, of course, but it seems likely that people with larger collections are more likely to be forum users than not.

So, if you were to imagine selecting any 1000 toys at random and then seeing who purchased them, it may be that you find that 10 forum users are responsible for 20% of the toys sold while 500 non-forum users are responsible for 80% of the toys sold. If that's the case, the forum user would seem to be more "valuable" as a customer than someone in the 80%.

Whether I'm barking up the right tree or not, unless someone's done some in-depth digging into sales patterns, it seems like there are quite a number of hunches but very few certainties. I mention it primarily because there's a ton of speculation done about what is a good seller and what isn't and whether or not the voices of the people on the forum carry any weight. I kind of scratch my head at times at things that seem to be taken as a given.
idk. i just like the ghost. :mystery:

Selling a bunch of BD toys, mostly smalls, with some minis and mediums: viewtopic.php?f=134&t=39858 and some EE, FB, DA, etc toys: viewtopic.php?f=136&t=39865 | Also, some bottle caps I made into magnets. Check them out and help me declutter.

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Re: Bad Dragon Banter

Postby kt~ » Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:18 pm

cluster wrote:I see lots of people postulating that various toys aren't good sellers or that the forum members are only a tiny minority of the overall BD buyership, and I wonder where the certainty that these things are true comes from.

I glean that people say that various toys aren't good sellers if there aren't a lot of them in the adoptions, but I wonder if this is true across the board. Snow Leopard, for example. There's only one size of it, so once someone has one, they have it. They aren't going to be moving through sizes or getting a couple of different sizes for different kinds of play. They could get different firmnesses, but with a one size, that's 3 potential purchases per toy (assuming 1 of each per person) as opposed to 12 potential purchases assuming a S-XL release in the 3 main firmnesses. Assuming an average number of flops across time, there's an opportunity for 3 flops to show up as rogues (or actual flops) in adoptions for a one size and 12 for a full release. If you constrain buying across all options and presume they're equal, toys with fewer options will always look less popular. (This doesn't speak to toys like Vergil, obviously.)


I guess I just speculate about lab toys like SL being unpopular because it's never gotten a full size release. Neither have a lot of the most recent other lab toys though.
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Re: Bad Dragon Banter

Postby Kith » Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:22 pm

cluster wrote:I see lots of people postulating that various toys aren't good sellers or that the forum members are only a tiny minority of the overall BD buyership, and I wonder where the certainty that these things are true comes from.


The former appears to come from the toys' representation on the forums (reviews, collection lists, "I have X" posts, etc), and the latter because BD has told us (forum favorite didn't win a Lab contest, survey results, etc). One-size toys can also be said to be unpopular if they haven't been upgraded to a main-line toy yet.
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kt~
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Re: Bad Dragon Banter

Postby kt~ » Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:24 pm

Kith wrote:
cluster wrote:I see lots of people postulating that various toys aren't good sellers or that the forum members are only a tiny minority of the overall BD buyership, and I wonder where the certainty that these things are true comes from.


The former appears to come from the toys' representation on the forums (reviews, collection lists, "I have X" posts, etc), and the latter because BD has told us (forum favorite didn't win a Lab contest, survey results, etc). One-size toys can also be said to be unpopular if they haven't been upgraded to a main-line toy yet.

Also the fact that Hanns was originally upgraded to a full size release and then got downgraded. Poor Hanns :unamused:
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Re: Bad Dragon Banter

Postby cluster » Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:24 pm

kt~ wrote:
cluster wrote: :words:


I guess I just speculate about lab toys like SL being unpopular because it's never gotten a full size release. Neither have a lot of the most recent other lab toys though.

It seems like a better way of gauging interest for a lab or one-size toy would be to have some sort of voting button in their model page. "Would you like to see other sizes of this toy?" and let people vote. Or, they could even estimate the sizes for the models not represented and let people who go to the product page vote on which size they'd like to see. That way, they could ease into a full release. Instead of reading the tea leaves for a one-size offering that might only appeal to a small part of the buying spectrum, they could move, step-wise, to the next size made most popular in the vote and see if there actually are enough sales to support a larger release.
idk. i just like the ghost. :mystery:

Selling a bunch of BD toys, mostly smalls, with some minis and mediums: viewtopic.php?f=134&t=39858 and some EE, FB, DA, etc toys: viewtopic.php?f=136&t=39865 | Also, some bottle caps I made into magnets. Check them out and help me declutter.

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