Imitation is the Sincerest form of Flattery...I guess.

[Runa]

No worries here, Deacon, I'm well aware that it's painless!

[C-Rex]

I didn't see this earlier this morning, but I was just talking to someone over there about it yesterday.

It's a free market, competitors can do what they want. If something works out for one company, others are likely to do the same, and many may even do it in a similar manner. It might not be obvious at first, but this is a good thing. In a stagnant market, much like Zeta had for years, with no competition, companies have little to no incentive to improve their product and service. If there's five companies making similar things, then each company is going to have to strive to out-do the others in some form, while charging less, or they'll probably lose their share of the market. Frankly, four companies serving the same niche market will only mean better products at better prices with better service. You don't have to look back too far to see how true that is, when Zeta was the only company, they were charging too much for toys made out of low-quality material with a very, very long wait time to get one. Then when competition showed up, they suddenly improved.

I've bought toys from BB5T before the guys who made EE were working with them, and I've bought toys after, and I have to say that there latter orders have been higher quality toys. They're good guys, give 'em a look at the very least.

[SnarkyFox]

My two cents here...

EE has some good ideas up their sleeve. With the livecast equine and canine toys and all. I'm sure those will be a hit. Their other stuff is pretty generic, I've seen livecast humans and stuff before.

Buuuuttt the Dragon toy? Come on. It's a huge ripoff. The manner in which they've posted the information is just a re-wording of the way BD do it; so is the order form. The Toy itself kinda looks like the Gryphon. And everything has just been copied right down to the COLOR BLENDING.... And the artwork is a rip off of Narse's style. There's no denying you've been copied bit for bit there. Franky that would piss me off.

If you wanna compete in the market compete with your OWN ideas.

[Psudowolf]

*stretches wings*
Damn it's been a LONG time, what with police training and all.

Anyway, I think this has gone on long enough. There's no need to continue this pointless argument any further, I put my vote towards +1 lockage.

[razorirr]

thats where my big dragon chair went to?

[Psudowolf]

thats where my big dragon chair went to?

C'mon up and have a seat!

[razorirr]

*scurrys up psudos tail and back to sit between his horns* yay!, but now its time for this dragon to go take a bath.

[Varka]

Wow, this managed to spill out onto 5 pages already? Jeez!

Anyway: Zeebra (who runs exotic erotics) is a great guy, and I'm sure that whatever he focuses on (I keep trying to tell him to pursue the livecast/realistic animal toys, as that's something we can't really pursue ourselves, being fantasy oriented) will be appropriate, respectful, and well-engineered for customers' needs.

The thing we're dealing with here I think is really talarath's 'rub it in our face' attitude. I'm not sure if it's a problem with Runa or if it's a problem with bad dragon (or any of us) in general, but the overall tone is 'How dare you suggest we're [who exactly?] copying you!' - and given that we and Zeebra have been swapping tips for more than a year, I don't really think the message that we're not pissed off (in the least!) at a good friend of mine successfully rolling out a new toy on a new technology has gotten through.

C-Rex (and others) are right; this is a free market, and is a friendly market. It benefits everyone to have a new 'competitor' - it motivates us to improve our products, our service, our visual appearance and our promotional activities, which is a positive thing for everyone - not least of all the consumer. As someone who got started in this business because of my love of toys (especially new, big, interesting ones - I am still absolutely craving proper knotting toys), this can only be a positive thing for me (And us!).

Really, I think the issue here is that Talarath reacted violently to Runa for whatever reason, and that's overspilled into the friendly, productive discussion of EE, who I feel have suffered unjustly as a result of Talarath's behaviour.

...I'm still convinced that EE should concentrate on the stuff we can't do, like actual life-cast or 3D sculpted animal cock. Fantasy and 'Realistic' are two very different markets, even if there's occasionally some overlap they are both two completely different ways of looking at things. Imitation isn't really that productive, as the reasons that Bad Dragon is successful with the fantasy market is because that's all we do.

Anyway, just my $0.02.

Oh, and I fully endorse Zeebra and Exotic Erotics - give them your support if you can!

[Varka]

Oh, and speaking of imitation being the sincerest form of flattery... look what I found from FurryStyle:

Talon

The Talon is a unique fantasy design sure to exceed your wildest desires. It's gracefully tapered shaft and robust head will quench your every need. The talon at the base of the balls stimulates you even further making it the best feature of this toy. The Talon's robust dimensions are 8" total length with 6" of usable shaft. The max circumference is 7" of body filling silicone sure to please.

http://www.furrystyle.com/yiffy/product ... t=0&page=1

and...


Drago

Drago's spiky design will stimulate you to nirvana. It's graceful curved shape will hit all the right spots. Drago is sure to become your best friend. Drago's dimensions are 8" from top to bottom with 6" of usable shaft. The max circumference is an ample 7".

http://www.furrystyle.com/yiffy/product ... t=0&page=1

On one hand, I'm thrilled that we're seen to be successful enough to be worth imitating, but at the same time I'm dissapointed that they're missing the entire point of why we're successful. The point isn't to 'make a dragon cock' or 'incorporate this feature' - the point is to express and deliver a fantasy, and to make it real for the customer!

This is the sum total of the creative writing used to describe the Talon:
The Talon is a unique fantasy design sure to exceed your wildest desires.
Does that seem uninspiring to you? The design and the manufacturing are excellent, and let's be honest this is a pretty visually appealing toy (if aimed more at basic, more mainstream users)... But would you buy this?

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is I wish that people would understand that they are much better off coming up with something on their own rather than simply following what looks to be popular (not just in terms of designs - sometimes designs just need a little tweak and suddenly they're a completely different toy - but also in terms of business direction). FurryStyle have a massive production advantage in that they can mass produce hundreds of toys in a single day - there's no way we could do that - and likewise, Exotic Erotics has a big advantage in the fact it has the creative license to be able to do realistic animal toys. These are the things they should be pursuing - not simply trying to imitate what we're doing!

I suppose the cultural equivelant of such behaviour is in companies making ipod clones in China and selling them to the Western world: they miss the fact that most people buy ipods because they're easy to use and pretty, not because they're cheaper - and so making a product that's less easy to use and less pretty kind of invalidates the entire reason Ipods are successful.

Anyway, I have the highest respect for our fellow competitors (we're all in this business together, and working together instead of spending all our energy infighting - as this thread proves - is MUCH more productive), and I really hope they're successful; I just wish that I could help them see that them leading the direction of the market is better for them (and for us) than simply following what looks successful for everyone else.

Varka

[zeebra]

Thanks varka for your support its much appreciated, you of all people know exactly what I had to go thru back with bb5t to get any types of "new" things bouncing around their heads. But, to tell you honestly the fact the the first 3-d modeled toy is a dragon means nothing . Thats just what it happen to be, i have been looking into this technology for a while as well and really didn't have the means to get anything my self printed (no computer fast enough to run the 3d rendering programs/ no skills to even work with the 3d rendering programs). But yes I will agree that after I had a toy sitting in front of me done i was thinking to my self... "well this looks really like something BD would produce" Hell ive had people summiting ideas to me that many of them look an awfully a lot like some of your toys. I decided I wasn't gonna produce those toys at all kinda because of that reason. really all I can say is this, I have to give what customers have already told me they want for toys, if that happens to be some fantasy animal im gonna offer it to them that is if someone hasn't already made something like it, then I would probably just point them into a direction.

[Shaminar]

yo! zeebra. Are you going to make any female toys, kind of like the Dragoness one that's soon to be released here (and bound to be a best-seller all round!), but only in your categorial area?

[zeebra]

hehe, surprising enough yes, I have had a few cast of some females private parts for the outside look of a female toy, just gotta work out the rest of the toy is all.

[Anonymousdragon101]

....................................................

[Ashendra]

i'd like to see a mare toy from your place, zeebra ^..^

i DO like the ice wyvern though, i want it.

[Runa]

I would like to say now that I have never had a problem with EE/BB5T, in fact, if you look, you'll see I entirely agree with varka, and that I fully support what they do!

I even have one of their toys and I love it! (so do the people I share it with..in fact, my buddy has it right now and he loves it!)

the closest thing to anything negative that I said was that the frost wyvern looked an awful lot like one of our toy releases, where I happen to agree with Varka on the part about niches...I think what makes EE/BB5T so unique is it's livecast moulds, and that's what it should focus on, becuase I personally think they would be more successful that way!

I firmly believe in what's called an "oligopoly", meaning a market is not dominated by one company (monopoly), but by many smaller companies. Nobody comes out ahead, and there's less anger and jealousy, but still enough friendly competition to keep things interesting.

[Dracostar]

Ok i;m not gonna risk saying anything that will possibly make me hated (even though I don't mean to), so I'll just say, calm down EVERYONE! Or else you will all suffer a goddamn brain anueurism. and we don;t want that do we?!

[florafreak]

i'd like to see a mare toy from your place, zeebra ^..^

i DO like the ice wyvern though, i want it.

OMG yes! I would buy this (holds money in hand)

[Runa]

Not gonna lie, unless you can get the inside of the mare toy to feel right, it'll be weird.

[MechaMoose]

One of the biggest issues I have had with ZC is that they have not stepped up their game to compete with BD and BB5T/EE. That EE is competing is hotsauce. I feel off that they are copying BD's formula so openly, but they do what works. That is good and smart (even if unoriginal)

Live cast is EE's niche. I hope they expand on that.. There are plenty of types/breeds to expand on. I would imagine that EE does not want to be perceived as a copier, but an innovator. Live casts give you that. Focus on your strengths.

Best of luck.

-MM